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What kind of gambling operation gives you a significant chance of having your money taken away from you before you get it? All rights reserved. The linked guideline document, and quoted text, is much less cut and dried than you seem to be about it being fine to have secondary markets if they're just against the EULA. No, they aren't. Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy. I dare you to find one. The added complexity of first needing to convert the items won to ingame currency would also work in their favour. Despite your degree in Texas Law I'd rather get a definitive answer from the government agency responsible than some dude on the internet. I don't think that really makes much of a difference given how liquid and easy to use the in game market is. Welcome to Reddit, the front page of the internet. Become a Redditor and join one of thousands of communities. Well that's the question, isn't it. You can't convert plex into real money in the game. We're discussing this in the context of a game where it is allowed and even common practice to scam, steal, spy, grief other players, and consume copious amounts of drugs. The answer to that is yes, though with great difficulty due to demand. This is the reality of EVE. There is no easily accessible way for Joe Schmo regular player to convert his in-game currency into real life currency. Idk if the high value liquidity argument is a silver bullet here for ccp. I wouldn't call RMT, which is ban-able and actively enforced, to whatever degree you may interpret that "Readily Accessible". I sent them the email as the hate train was still in the station, but being a government agency it's taken them 3 weeks to respond. You can try to use ebay and get banned. Lets say its high stakes games of chance with the tokens converting to rare art at a rate set by an appraiser on site. Objectively, the answer to this will most likely be yes. They just say the rules of the game or website has to restrict the use of the prizes. Doesn't mean they will penalize a game or service just because some people choose to RMT the game currency against the TOS of the developer. CCP actively tries to squash out RMT sites and have a history of doing it, so no those sites are not readily accessible. They're just covering their back. Please contact me in game for possibly rewarding engagements at little to no risk to your well being. It's relatively easy for someone to purchase isk via an RMT site - you can google those and find a bunch, mostly in poor English and most even make it clear you're likely to get banned if you use the service. Do you disagree with the third point? I'd feel more sympathetic if we were discussing a relatively family friendly game, but we're not. That's irrelevant when viewed through the lens of a player. This has nothing to do with which corp someone's in. No, to be specific I disagree with the first point, feel neutral on the second, and think you lack competence to address the third. Want to join? Or do you think that online providers should be able to do whatever they want without oversight from regulators? Submit a new text post. It's important that the crossover space between online gambling and social gaming is properly regulated and policed, and the whole point of the commission is to consider questions like this. You can make your own RMT website and get banned. Most of these RMTers are selling isk that they have generated themselves, not that they have purchased from other players, because the RMTers do what they do at the least risk to themselves, and buying isk is far riskier than generating it yourself and selling it. Yay lawyer speak. You can try to go through third-market folks, and get banned. A Twitch streamer's channel points are RMT'able. You didn't read the quoted paragraph, did you? There is no secondary market where you can sell your ISK for cash. Eve submitted 6 months ago by Astriania.{/INSERTKEYS}{/PARAGRAPH} The commissions primary question would be: Can the item in the raffle be sold for real world currency? Does the lack of liquidity in that rare art make it not gambling? Gambling is especially addictive because you can "regamble" the wins, this is not possible with high value items. RMT is restricted in the form that is no mechanism in game that allows you to trade Isk or Plex for real money. So the character of it is more like "buying", which of course can also be addictive, but does not fall under the same area. Where prizes are successfully restricted for use solely within the game, such in- game features would not be licensable gambling. Or to say it otherwise. Will be interesting to see if they consider RMT transactions to qualify as secondary market trades. Cant charge ccp in something that they actively ban people for and discourage. Anything is RMT'able. {PARAGRAPH}{INSERTKEYS}Spoiler: no big reveal self. They just need to actively restrict, as opposed to it just being technically against the rules but ignored. Get an ad-free experience with special benefits, and directly support Reddit. CCP going out of the way to not only restrict but also discourage and punish anyone that tries to RMT. No, it's pretty cut and dried. All CCP would have to substantiate is they have taken legitimate and reasonable steps to restrict the ability of individuals from liquidating ingame assets into external world currency. They don't need to completely stop it. So lets bring high value discussion out of game. Depending on the scale, sophistication and availability of the secondary markets to British consumers, the Commission has and will take action against games or websites offering unlicensed gambling facilities. As you may recall from the patch thread about Hypernet there was a big discussion about whether Hypernet is gambling. Did it not occur to you that CCP might be tuned into the zeitgeist on this, and took the necessary steps to ensure their bases were covered before releasing the feature? Remember their goal is not to curtail RMT, it's to control and regulate gambling with real funds, and any impediment to that direct transaction works in CCPs favour. Anything out of the game is forbidden by the TOS so there is pretty much it. Readily accessible means something that is both immediate, and open to use. Log in or sign up in seconds. It's talking about secondary markets i. I got a response from them which, paraphrasing, says 'good question, we'll look into it'. Best effort counts for a lot in this kind of thing. I dont like you at all but i agree with you and would even stake your law license and my teaching certificate on that! The added complexity of first needing to convert the items won to ingame currency would also work in their favour, as it creates an additional step to prevent currency liquidation i. The basic precautions need to be 1 clear policy and internal procedure, 2 evidence of it being followed, 3 supporting statistics, 4 facility to curb access to prevent gambling addiction. I double dare you, Samuel L. As CCP can point at a bunch of bans, and procedures. They just need to show they take it seriously and are trying. I suspect that they'll think they've done fine. Sorry, not used to people being agreeable on reddit ; look at some of the other responses lol. Not that interesting, tbh. Lol the response literally has nothing to do with RMT. Abyssal modules, titans etc are not. Sure, it wasn't "cashed out" but I guess it's all down to whether the commission thinks its "restricted for use solely within the game". Given that there aren't readily accessible opportunities to cash in or exchange those awarded in-games items for money or money's worth, it's unlikely they're going to be considered licenseable gambling activities. Converting it into in game currency first is one step removed from the process. Jackson style. There will always be black market trade, but ultimately as long as the company is taking sufficient precaution so as to restrict the majority of violations, it's unlikely to fall under gaming regulations. If they say it's definitely fine without having looked into it, then it's a major deal for them if it turns out not to be. As far as I'm concerned Eve should let the freak flag fly, check your morals at the door. I really don't like Hypernet and CCP have not shown any interest in negative opinions about it on here; if it were deemed illegal without a licence they'd have to change it;. Which CCP does. Hopefully so. What's interesting about that is that they didn't say 'it's definitely fine'. Submit a new link. I don't like gambling or related things, like rerollable lootboxes - I've strongly criticised mutaplasmids too being introduced to games, particularly games which aren't age restricted; and. The Mother Cluckers crew is always in need of C.